Guests - Ava Chen, Kenneth Abramowitz, Yvette Serino
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A Foiled Plot and the Question of Who Benefits
The week's conversation opened with a chilling near-miss: a plot involving drones and snipers, allegedly timed around a UFC fight and reportedly intended to target an area where members of Arizona's congressional delegation and their families were in attendance. Host Kathleen Winn described learning that people she knew personally were on-site when the scheme was uncovered. "It doesn't look like it was well conceived," she said, noting that investigators had not yet tied it to a sponsoring terrorist organization or foreign government. "We're still in the but those kinds of things," she added, crediting the FBI's vigilance for the fact that nothing happened.
For Ava Chen, a commentator with the New Federal State of China who joins the show weekly for its China Watch Wednesday segment, the episode's significance ran deeper than the immediate danger. She pointed to the age of those involved — some as young as 19 — as the real warning sign. "Why would they take the most violent act you can think of to harm their fellow countrymen?" Chen asked. Her answer: a steady diet of untruthful information that convinced them violence was how the world operates.
Chen framed the incident as evidence of two dangerous extremes pulling at modern society simultaneously. On one end sits concentrated power — she pointed to China, where she said a single leader effectively decides the fate of 1.4 billion people through "a stroke of a written policy." On the other end sits a different danger: people who feel so powerless to create change that they turn to extreme violence because they see no alternative. "When your mind was basically poisoned by garbage, or even more dangerous, poisoned with evil ideology, that blinds you for everything else, then this is the most vicious act a rational being would choose, because it's simply powerless," she said.
She argued that the American founding offered a different model entirely — proof that ordinary people can live with dignity and build prosperity without harming others, provided they have access to truth and the freedom to think critically. "If we understand how the world operates, there's always hidden interest behind everything," Chen said, pointing to the perennial struggle over who controls information. She noted how few people, by comparison, actually travel, talk to neighbors, or seek out firsthand understanding of the world versus how many simply consume news and social media — a dynamic, she said, that leaves ordinary people vulnerable to manipulation from both ends of the spectrum: those hoarding power and those exploiting the powerless.
Winn drew her own conclusion from the foiled plot, emphasizing that all of the suspects were young American men who had apparently found one another through some still-unidentified network. "We have young men who are disassociated with the normal culture, the normal way of life in this country, and that they would come together to plot terror and death and destruction... that is terrifying to me," she said. She called it "a cancer inside our country" that needs to be exposed and treated rather than allowed to fade from headlines once the immediate danger passes. Notably, the target date coincided with a planned celebration of the president's 80th birthday — an event Winn described as a tribute to the nation rather than to the man himself, and one she said represented exactly the kind of open, vigorous debate the country's founders intended, conducted through ideas rather than violence.
The Pentagon's Blacklist and the Hidden Hand in the Supply Chain
The conversation's second major thread centered on a list most Americans have never heard of. On June 8, the Department of War added 65 companies to the Pentagon's 1260H list — a registry of firms identified as linked to the Chinese military — bringing the total to 188. Some, like Alibaba and the electric vehicle maker BYD, are household names. Most are not. "They're hidden inside something else," Chen explained, citing battery manufacturers and components used in solar and infrastructure projects as examples of the kind of company that operates largely unseen by the average consumer.
Chen credited the disclosure as genuine progress, framing it as years of advocacy by Miles Guo and the New Federal State of China finally bearing fruit. "After eight years, we see that on the list," she said. Winn connected the move to a broader pattern she's observed in the current administration, comparing its approach to "going through every drawer in a mansion" — pulling out what's there, keeping what's valuable, and dealing with whatever turns out to be dangerous. She characterized the effort as targeting not just waste and fraud but corruption and criminal activity more broadly.
The two discussed how deeply embedded some of these connections run, even in well-known brands. Chen pointed to Baidu — a company she described as China's version of Google but with confirmed military ties — and its partnership with the autonomous vehicle company Waymo on self-driving taxi fleets. "Although you see, oh, Waymo is a brand, it's American brand... this is where I say things are always hidden," she said. She extended the point to manufacturing more broadly, noting that more than half of Tesla's global vehicles and the majority of Apple's phones are still produced in China — facts she said most consumers never stop to consider.
Chen was blunt about why this information doesn't reach the public through conventional channels. "Media is not reporting it... because they actually have hidden interest behind them," she said, asserting that the Chinese Communist Party is the single largest buyer of global advertising dollars, an arrangement she said gives it leverage over what gets covered and what gets quietly avoided. She drew a sharp distinction between declared interests — which she said are compatible with democracy because people can see where someone stands — and hidden interests, which she said open the door to manipulation and unaccountability.
She also flagged a more recent development complicating the picture: reporting that the U.S. is holding off on blacklisting China's DeepSeek and more than 100 other firms deemed security risks, even after the Pentagon's own list named many of them as military-linked. Chen explained the bureaucratic mechanics behind the apparent contradiction — the 1260H list falls under the Department of War, while export control falls under the Department of Commerce's Bureau of Industry and Security. The slower pace on the commerce side, she said, likely reflects a more cautious calculation about avoiding escalation with Beijing. "This is where I want people to understand your system designed this way. It's a separation of power. It's a protection," she said, framing the friction between disclosure and enforcement as a feature of the American system rather than a failure of it.
Winn closed the segment by returning to a recurring question on the show: who benefits? "Once you get to the source of why something is happening, it's one of those aha moments," she said, arguing that the 188 companies on the list represent a small group profiting enormously at the expense of both the Chinese people and the American public that unknowingly did business with them.
Xi Jinping's Strategy and the Trap in the Middle East
Shifting to the war between Israel, the United States, and Iran, Chen laid out a theory of Chinese strategic intent that she said the New Federal State of China has been warning about for years: that Xi Jinping's ultimate goal is Taiwan, and that he is betting the United States cannot fight three major conflicts simultaneously. "They're betting on that," she said, describing the calculation as a wager that America's military, political will, and public attention can be drained faster in the Middle East than they can be replenished.
Her argument: China benefits any way the Iran conflict plays out. If President Trump strikes forcefully, critics call him reckless. If he negotiates, critics call him weak. If he waits, critics say he's lost control. "So if he brings every angle, you see that," Chen said. She also pointed to the financial and material toll of the conflict, citing a downed Apache helicopter valued at over a billion dollars and MQ-9 drones worth tens of millions each, juxtaposed against Iranian drones she said cost as little as $30,000 and rely on Chinese-made chips, components, and satellite positioning assembled along the Iran-Pakistan border.
Beyond draining resources, Chen argued China is using the conflict to position itself as an alternative security partner to Gulf nations that have traditionally relied on the United States, while simultaneously working to damage President Trump's political standing ahead of the midterms. She characterized this as a fourth, quieter objective: opening a strategic window in the South China Sea while American attention is consumed elsewhere. "CCP has not stopped one minute. They have been preparing around Taiwan," she said.
Chen also drew a distinction between the conditions for internal change in Iran versus China, arguing that Iran's population lacks the support infrastructure to rise up against its government despite wanting to, while China's population — by her account, 600 million of whom access the show's livestream via VPN despite the legal risk — represents a more genuinely ready population once Western support for the Chinese Communist Party erodes. "The moment of supporting that, you will see the Chinese people standing up and ending the CCP," she said.
Kenneth Abramowitz: No Money for Iran Until the Terror Networks Are Dismantled
Kenneth Abramowitz, author of The Multi-Front War: Defending America from Political Islam, China, Russia, Pandemics and Racial Strife and founder of SaveTheWest.com, brought a structural breakdown of the memorandum of understanding between the U.S. and Iran. He described two phases: an initial agreement to lift blockades, reopen the Strait of Hormuz, and let oil and gasoline flow more freely, followed by a 60-day window meant to resolve roughly ten outstanding disputes between the two countries. His prediction was blunt: "There's zero chance of agreeing on any of those 10 issues." He expected the window to be extended twice, pushing any real reckoning past the midterm elections — a sequencing he believes is a deliberate political decision by the administration to lower gas prices, calm inflation, and protect Republican majorities in Congress before confronting Iran again.
Abramowitz did not hide his skepticism about the ceasefire itself. "Personally, I'm not excited about the ceasefire. I think we should have just kept bombing," he said, comparing the current conflict to World War II and arguing that, as with Germany and Japan, the fighting should have continued until surrender rather than pausing for negotiation. He pointed to the moment an Apache helicopter was shot down as a turning point that he believes pushed the administration toward a deal it might not otherwise have pursued.
He was equally direct about Iran's negotiating posture, describing the country as fundamentally untrustworthy. "They're kind of like a cheating spouse that gets caught a million times," he said. His central policy position was that no funds — direct or indirect, through Qatar or any other intermediary — should reach Iran until it dismantles what he described as a 600,000-person global terror network spanning physical terrorists, narco-terrorists, and what he called cultural terrorists operating through mosques and schools. He put that figure at roughly 20 times the combined size of al-Qaeda and ISIS. "Until Iran fires its 600,000 worldwide terrorists, we can't hand them any money," he said, warning that any sanctions relief risks branding the United States the world's top state sponsor of terror by proxy.
Abramowitz also weighed in on friction between the U.S. and Israel, arguing that American negotiators mishandled the question of Lebanon by bringing it into talks with Iran without Israel at the table. "It's insulting for America and Israel to negotiate behind Israel's back," he said, using an analogy about being asked to sell a neighbor's house without that neighbor's knowledge or consent. He credited Israel as America's closest and most reliable Middle East partner, noting that the two countries jointly struck roughly 25,000 sites during 38 days of operations against Iran, split roughly evenly between Israeli and American pilots. He argued Israel has no obligation to withdraw from Lebanon, where Hezbollah — which he described as Iran-funded — remains active, unless Iran reciprocates by withdrawing its own presence there.
Framing the broader global picture, Abramowitz described the current period as effectively a third world war being fought on three fronts: Ukraine against Russia, Israel and the United States against Iran, and Taiwan against China in a still-unrealized but actively prepared-for conflict. "China's fingerprints are all over the place everywhere. And Qatar's fingerprints are also all over the place," he said, arguing that weakness on any one front sends an emboldening signal to adversaries on the other two. His position was that all three conflicts are currently winnable for the side he supports, with the caveat that winning requires follow-through. "It only counts in baseball when you win," he said. "It doesn't count, oh, I'm winning, I'm winning. And then you lose in the ninth inning."
Primary Stakes, Voter Rolls, and a Cautionary Tale from California
Returning to domestic politics, Winn used a segment of the show to underscore the stakes of the upcoming primary, arguing that the outcome will shape Arizona's direction more decisively than the general election that follows. She described her own candidate evaluation process as resembling a job interview, weighing a candidate's record and qualifications above personal history or party loyalty, while declining to share her own choices on air until after the primary concludes.
She used California's recent election — still tallying roughly 68,000 ballots two weeks after election day — as a cautionary example for Arizona, criticizing same-day registration and mail-in ballot rules that she said contributed to the delay despite turnout of only around 38 percent. "Arizona should take that as a cautionary tale," she said, calling for a return to precinct voting and a cleanup of voter rolls. She also raised a specific concern about Pima County Republicans who she said had been removed from active voter rolls despite a consistent voting history, urging listeners to verify their registration status with the county recorder's office before early ballots arrive.
Yvette Serino: Mobilizing the Latino Vote and Supporting the Homeless Community
Yvette Serino joined the show to discuss two upcoming events: a Latinos for Bigs meet-and-greet on June 22nd at the Community Performing Arts Center in Green Valley, Arizona, and a leadership training session the same evening at the Center for Opportunity Gospel Rescue Mission featuring guest speaker David Reed. Serino described the Bigs event as open to the entire community regardless of background, with the goal of giving voters a chance to meet candidate Andy Biggs in person before deciding how to vote. "If you're not sure, you should meet this person or you should come hear them speak because it does change things," she said.
Serino was emphatic about the growing electoral weight of the Latino vote, noting that Latinos are projected to become the majority population in the United States within five years. She argued that many in that community remain politically disconnected from candidates on the right despite shared values, framing Biggs's platform as centered on working families broadly rather than any single demographic. "I don't think Latinos understand the impact and the power that they have to shift elections," she said.
On homelessness, both Serino and Winn described it as a problem that transcends party lines, pointing to the Center for Opportunity Gospel Rescue Mission as a model worth replicating because it operates entirely on private donations without government funding. Winn drew on her own decades-long history with the issue, dating back to her work founding what became New Beginnings, an organization she said achieved a 96 percent success rate helping primarily single mothers gain job skills, housing, and financial independence during a period before drug addiction became as widespread a complicating factor as it is today. "We were helping people that wanted to be helped," she said.
The conversation also touched on education funding, with Winn arguing that administrative bloat — not insufficient funding — is the primary obstacle preventing money from reaching classrooms and teacher paychecks, and on sex trafficking, which both described as a rare point of genuine bipartisan agreement. Serino closed by urging voters of all backgrounds to treat the primary with urgency, noting that early ballots will arrive within the week and encouraging anyone uncertain about a candidate to attend the June 22nd event in person.