Guests - Richard Lyons, Jack Dona
The DNA of Democracy, a Red Stamp in the Mailbox, and a Debate That Needs to Grow Up
Tuesday on Winn Tucson covered the full arc from ancient civilization to modern Arizona: a historian who traces the collapse of free societies to a hundred-year-old plan inaugurated under Woodrow Wilson, a disabled veteran who opened his mailbox to find his approved property tax exemption stamped CANCELED in red, and a retired Master Sergeant who spent the second half of the show reading Rodney Glassman's military record aloud because he believes the voters deserve to know what was actually said about the man by his superior officers — not what's being said about him by his opponent.
Richard Lyons: One Hundred Years of Socialism, the DNA of Democracy, and Why the Founding Principles Were Always the Target
Richard Lyons is a historian, author, and the writer of DNA of Democracy — a multi-volume series tracing the intellectual and political lineage of the American constitutional republic from its ancient Greek and Roman roots through the founding, the Civil War, and into the present-day battle between free enterprise and socialism. He joined from Wisconsin, east of Madison, originally from the Chicago suburb of Hinsdale — and he brought the historian's perspective to the morning's opening conversation with a clarity about how we got here that most political commentary misses entirely.
Where It Started: Woodrow Wilson and the Decision to Evolve, Not Revolt
The Progressive Movement's centennial is not a coincidence of timing — it is a plan that has been in continuous execution since Woodrow Wilson declared during his presidency that Russia was doing revolution wrong. The Bolshevik method — violent overthrow — was too visible, too disruptive, too easily countered. America's path to the same end, Wilson argued, should be through evolution.
"A hundred years ago, the Progressive Party began, and it began with a nationalized income tax and the creation of the Federal Reserve."
The trajectory Lyons traced is relentless: Wilson's foundational institutions gave government the tools for centralized economic control. Franklin Roosevelt invaded the free enterprise system, making Washington the main player rather than the market. Lyndon Johnson redistributed wealth on an industrial scale — funneling all national revenue through the federal government and sending it back out based on political compliance.
Then came Obama, who operationalized the final step: using administrative state agencies not merely to govern but to attack political opponents.
"That is a tyranny when your taxes are going to a government that is attacking you with the wealth you give it."
The Education System Is the Delivery Mechanism
The reason most Americans do not understand this historical arc is deliberate — Lyons is unambiguous about this.
"We are teaching political science in school, but it's all the wrong political science. It claims capitalism or free enterprise is unfair and wrong. And that socialism is somehow a utopia — unlike every other country that ever practiced it, including Russia. There is no utopia. It ends in a prison, a gulag, and a firing squad."
The irony that cities like Seattle and New York spent years attacking their most productive residents — the people who pay disproportionate tax revenue — only to discover when those residents left that the entire funding model had collapsed, is a real-time economics lesson that the public schools never assign.
"All of a sudden they understand — there's no people to pay the money."
Adam Smith, Democracy Applied to an Economy, and Why They Are Opposites
Lyons made a point that the 250th anniversary year deserves to hear: Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations was published in 1776, coincident with the Declaration of Independence. That parallelism was not accidental. The founders understood that political liberty and economic liberty were the same thing, expressed in different domains.
"Our free enterprise economy is the application of democracy to an economy, wherein anybody can produce whatever is in their mind to produce, if they back it with their labor. What happens on the market? The people decide with a vote. They either buy the product or they don't."
The result is abundance — a cornucopia of goods that fills a society's actual needs rather than what central planners decree those needs should be.
The contrast is not that capitalism and socialism are different approaches to the same goal. They are not dissimilar — they are opposites.
"A socialist state and a free state are opposites."
The Mamdani-style push to nationalize food distribution in New York — the logical extension of the progressive project applied to the one sector they haven't yet controlled — was Lyons's coda to the economic argument. If mandatory vaccines weren't enough, now comes mandatory food. "What could possibly go wrong?" he asked. His own answer: "Everything."
Graham Platner, Socialism Out in the Open, and Testing the Boundary
On the Maine Senate race, Lyons offered an observation that connected the political and the cultural.
Before Obama, the left had to hide its socialism from the electorate. They couldn't call it what it was. Obama began the opening. Now candidates run as democratic socialists openly — Mamdani in New York, Platner in Maine — and the question being tested is not whether the ideas are popular but whether there is any boundary the electorate will refuse to cross.
"If they can't get elected with it, they'll manage by other means. Look at how violent they've become with the riots of 2020. These are our agencies and they're attacking us."
Platner — who has a tattoo Lyons and Winn noted requires no explanation as to its allegiances — is being endorsed and championed by Bernie Sanders, AOC, and other progressive luminaries. The same people who have called Trump a Nazi for years are promoting a man who carries the symbol on his chest. Lyons's read: they want crazy. They are testing the boundary. And if they can get elected with it, they'll stop hiding it everywhere.
Why Town Assembly Democracy Is the Founding Model
Lyons closed the first segment with the principle he has spent three volumes documenting. The founding principle was not just that government should be limited — it was that government should be close. The closer government is to the citizen, the more the citizen can affect it. That is why the town assembly was the model, not the federal superstructure.
"In town assemblies, you have direct democracy. At higher levels, you have representative or republic forms of governance. But still there, you have representation. They wanted governance to be as close as possible and as limited as possible. It has become as distant as possible and as concentrated as possible and growing."
His three-volume DNA of Democracy series is available through his website. The third volume, Passage to the Shadows, collects current events essays — all pointing to the same tension between founding principles and a century of creeping socialism.
A White House Invitation and the Students Who Still Know Their History
Before transitioning to her second guest, Winn shared news she had been holding all week: she has been invited to the White House on June 9th by U.S. Secretary of Education Linda McMahon to attend the finals of the Presidential 1776 Award — a national civics competition that drew over 8,000 student applicants from all 50 states and territories.
The structure of the competition: an online qualifying exam eliminated all but the most serious contenders. Twenty students advanced to the national finals from a pool of 173 state semifinalists. The three top finalists will win a combined $250,000 in scholarship prizes.
From Arizona: Sam Chumley is among the finalists. A name Winn didn't know, but one she was proud to announce.
"I guarantee you we could go out to adults right now who don't understand the Constitution, the American founding, and the key moments in our nation's history."
The examination was developed by the James Madison Fellowship — an organization that offers $24,000 graduate fellowships to teachers who want to become outstanding instructors of the American Constitution at the secondary school level. The foundation plans to offer one fellowship per state per year starting in 2027.
Winn noted her prior connection to this lineage: she worked with former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who was appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1981, confirmed 99-0 by the Senate, and who spent her entire post-bench career focused on civic education. Her law school now operates at ASU. Her commitment to teaching the next generation of legal professionals was, in Winn's telling, a force — not a hobby.
The 250th anniversary of the United States is not merely a calendar milestone. It is a reckoning. The students competing for the 1776 Award on June 9th are a data point in a counter-trend that every adult who worries about where this country is headed needs to see.
Master Sergeant Jack Dona (Ret.): The Red Stamp, Warren Peterson's Law License, and What Rodney Glassman's Record Actually Says
Jack Dona — retired Master Sergeant, disabled veteran, Gold Star family member (his uncle died in Korea), and one of the most tenacious advocates for Arizona veterans in the state — came on with a story that arrived in his mailbox the previous day and a second story that he had been building toward for weeks.
100% Permanently Disabled. Then: CANCELED.
Two years ago, the Arizona legislature passed House Bill 2792, amending ARS 42-11111. The new law provides 100% property tax exemption for veterans who hold a VA letter stating they are permanently and totally disabled — meaning the VA has concluded the disability is complete, irreversible, and not subject to further review. This is a different and more severe category than "totally disabled but reviewable," which was covered in an earlier law.
Dona is permanently and totally disabled. In February of this year, he filed the correct paperwork with the Cochise County Assessor. The assessor processed it. He received an approval letter stating he was exempt from all property taxes on his property.
Then yesterday, his mailbox contained a new letter from the county attorney's office — the original approval letter, now overstamped in large red letters: CANCELED.
He read the Cochise County Attorney's statement on air, word for word, as it appeared through the COOL FM media outlet. Cochise County Attorney Laurie Zucco issued a press release encouraging veterans to "review eligibility requirements," noting that the law "has evolved" and that "questions arose regarding administration of the statute." She pointed to Maricopa and Pinal counties as taking the same approach.
"She covered herself," Dona said. "She said I'm not the only one doing it — three out of 15 counties are doing it."
Winn's pointed read: those 15 counties include one with a county assessor who told Dona directly that 15,000 to 18,000 veterans in Cochise County alone had filed under the new law, and that the revenue impact was going to be "tens of millions of dollars."
"I said: I guess they'll just have to pare back county, because county got too big on COVID money anyway."
The underlying legal dispute is a conflict between the new language — permanently and totally disabled, which has no monetary limits — and the old law's income and property value thresholds, which Zucco's office is now applying retroactively to approvals already issued under the new standard.
The practical result: veterans who were told in writing that their exemption was approved are now being told in writing that those approvals are canceled. Not because the new law doesn't say what it says. Because some county attorneys are choosing to read the old law's limitations into the new law's language.
"The law was passed. A law was passed. That's what I'm saying. A law was written, it was signed, and now it's being ignored."
The legislators who need to be hearing about this, in Dona's view: state Senator Frank Antonori — a retired two-star decorated Special Forces officer whose constituency includes the veterans being denied this benefit — and Congressman Ciscomani, in whose district this is occurring. Dona also noted he attended the Military Intelligence Ball at the Westin in Tucson on Friday, where every elected official and military leader at the table of honor came over — except one congressional representative, who walked past the table of Gold Star families without acknowledging it. He gave that representative grace. The community will not forget.
The Stolen Valor Bill and the Role Glassman Played
The history of Arizona's stolen valor law — now on the books — involves a political fight that Dona was in the middle of and that illuminates what Rodney Glassman's leadership looks like under pressure.
A candidate endorsed by influential figures in the Arizona legislature lost a race after questions arose about whether he had fabricated his military record. He never produced certified copies of his DD Form 214. The legislature's response: table the stolen valor bill in committee. Veterans came from across the state to testify. The bill was tabled anyway.
"I actually heard there were threats: if you vote for this bill, we're going to kill your bill."
It was Glassman — then as now, a Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Air Force Reserve, serving as assistant staff judge advocate at Luke Air Force Base — who stepped into the vacuum. He mobilized the American Legion. He mobilized the VFWs. He stood shoulder to shoulder with Dona at press conferences. He wrote letters. He applied the kind of sustained, organized, public pressure that eventually forced then-Senate President Warren Peterson to allow the bill to come to the floor.
"It was his positive leadership in rallying our veterans and military retirees that put the pressure. It was Rodney's leadership."
What Glassman's Military Record Actually Says
Dona obtained Glassman's complete military dossier — released to the Arizona Republic by Glassman's campaign. He read portions of it aloud.
The record: Glassman holds a PhD, a Juris Doctorate, two master's degrees, and a bachelor's degree. His awards include Meritorious Service Medals with multiple clusters and Air Force Commendation Medals.
From the citation for his most recent Meritorious Service Medal, signed by Colonel Angela M. McGinnis of the 17 Trainer Wing — someone other than Glassman writing about Glassman:
"Outstanding superior leadership for multiple personnel at the JAG office in execution of over 96 criminal investigations. Presided over two sexual harassment discharge boards as a judge in a summary court martial. Ensured orderly administration of justice."
As a major, before his promotion to Lieutenant Colonel: reviewed 16 non-judicial supervisions, oversaw 10 court martials. Prosecuted DUI cases, child abuse cases, drug charges. 19th Air Force Reserve Judge Advocate of the Year for 2015 and 2016.
"He's fast-tracking to become a general. I'm not exaggerating."
The Attorney General Debate and the Stakes for November
Dona was present in spirit for the debate between Glassman and Warren Peterson — a debate that, by his account and by the texts Winn received in real time, was not the best performance by either man.
His verdict: both need to act like they want the job. "If they continue to do what they're doing and act the way they're acting, this is not going to go well for us."
The target is Chris Mays. She is the reason this race matters. The Judicial Watch announcement that the Arizona Court of Appeals overturned a lower court's decision that had allowed Mays to hide documents about her anti-Trump legal actions — and that her office has decided not to appeal — is the latest in a long line of documented failures.
Forty-one lawsuits against the Trump administration. Tom Crosby still under prosecution for 2020 election-related actions. The perjury referral on Nanos sitting on her desk. The stolen valor benefit denial cascading across 15 Arizona counties without her intervention.
"We have a corrupt attorney general. Under no circumstance can we allow Chris Mays to continue."
On the specific qualification question surrounding Peterson — whether his having held his Arizona law license only since December 2023 runs afoul of the statute requiring five years of practice to be eligible for the attorney general position — Dona was direct:
"Warren Peterson has never litigated one misdemeanor case in any court. He has never prosecuted anyone. He has never represented anyone in a criminal matter. He has only had his license since December 2023. And Arizona statute requires five years of licensed practice to be eligible for the position."
He acknowledged that the five-year statute is an old law that has not been recently enforced. Whether a court would uphold it against a primary winner is uncertain. But the risk is real: if Peterson wins the primary and the law is then litigated in the general election cycle, it could hand Chris Mays an uncontested race.
"They're praying they get Warren Peterson. They're hoping for it."
Winn's counterpoint: qualifications matter. So does winning. The best outcome is a primary that produces the most qualified candidate who is also the most electable. Experience as an actual prosecutor — the core function of the job being sought — is not a secondary consideration.
"The attorney general in this state needs to be replaced. I'm suing her, for goodness sake. But the person who replaces her has to know the law. Has to have done the job. That's not on-the-job training — it's the job."
Glassman Event in Sierra Vista
Dona's organization is hosting Rodney Glassman in Sierra Vista on Friday, June 19th, from 2:30 to 4:30 p.m. at Vinny's New York Pizza, 1977 South Frontage Road, Sierra Vista, Arizona (Cochise County).
Come in person. Look him in the eye. Ask your questions. Hear his answers directly.
"He will answer any questions. He's a full disclosure type. Meet the people you're going to consider voting for. Look them in the eye and get a firsthand assessment of who they are and what they're about."
Winn Tucson airs Monday through Friday, 9 to 11 a.m., on KVOI 1030 The Voice.
Tomorrow: China Watch Wednesday with Ava Chen. Jeff Rhodes — Republican candidate for Pima County Supervisor District 5 — will also appear.
Rodney Glassman meet-and-greet: June 19th, 2:30–4:30 p.m., Vinny's New York Pizza, 1977 S. Frontage Road, Sierra Vista.
Primary voter registration deadline: June 22nd. Early ballots: June 24th. Primary: July 21st.