Guests - Dave and Betsy Smith, David Gonzalez
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Winn Tucson: A Deep Dive into Law Enforcement, Immigration, and Political Hypocrisy
On a lively broadcast of Winn Tucson, host Kathleen Winn welcomed retired law enforcement veterans Betsy Brantner Smith, Dave Smith, and former U.S. Marshal David Gonzalez—the longest-serving in U.S. history—for a candid, no-holds-barred discussion. The conversation ranged from a fatal ICE confrontation in Minnesota to welfare fraud, January 6 hypocrisy, the 15th anniversary of the Gabby Giffords shooting, and the state of modern policing.
The Minnesota ICE Shooting: Tragedy, Context, and Instant Condemnation
The central topic was the previous day’s fatal shooting in Minneapolis, where ICE agents confronted activists interfering with an enforcement operation. Renee Good, a 37-year-old mother of three and U.S. citizen, was killed after striking an ICE agent with her vehicle.
Kathleen Winn set the tone: “This is a terrible tragedy—a 37-year-old mother is dead. But the ICE agent did what we train officers to do: he stopped her from running him or anyone else over.”
Dave Smith emphasized the deliberate nature of the confrontation. “These activists call themselves ‘legal observers,’ but they obstruct lawful police activity. Good and her partner were following ICE agents, videotaping, and getting in the way.”
Betsy Brantner-Smith highlighted the partner’s role. “Her wife was on scene screaming, ‘This is all my fault—I made her come today.’ That same partner had prior convictions for abusing children with cigarettes.”
David Gonzalez, drawing on decades of federal experience, addressed morale. “This echoes the 2020 Portland courthouse siege, where deputy marshals faced firebombs and no political support. When elected officials condemn agents instantly, it’s demoralizing.”
All four criticized the rapid narrative spin. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey condemned ICE before facts emerged, with Walz calling the Department of Homeland Security’s account “propaganda” and “political theater.”
Winn observed, “They incentivize people to act out against law enforcement. Elected officials told protesters to ‘put their lives on the line’ against this administration’s ‘oppression.’”
Media Bias and Democratic Hypocrisy
The panel dissected the media’s rush to judgment. CNN initially featured commentators claiming the shooting was unjustified, only to bring in John Miller to correct the record.
Dave Smith noted, “One law enforcement guest admitted he’d have fired in the same situation without bystanders in the background. Anderson Cooper was stunned—he said the quiet part out loud.”
The discussion turned to selective outrage. Winn pointed out the stark contrast in citizenship emphasis: “When American citizens are killed by illegal immigrants, citizenship rarely matters to the media. But when a U.S. citizen dies confronting ICE, suddenly it’s the lead.”
Betsy Brantner-Smith tied it to January 6. “They lionized Lieutenant Michael Byrd after shooting Ashley Babbitt—an unarmed Air Force veteran—yet condemn this ICE agent who faced a deadly vehicle assault.”
The panel also criticized Senator Ruben Gallego’s opposition to military honors for a fallen service member while defending Byrd’s actions.
Minnesota’s Somali Welfare Fraud and Diversion Tactics
The shooting, the panel argued, served as a distraction from explosive testimony in the House Oversight Committee about massive fraud in Minnesota’s social programs, particularly within the Somali community.
Dave Smith called it “an iceberg.” Estimates now approach $9 billion in misappropriated funds.
Kathleen Winn added, “After 10–20 years, large percentages remain on welfare. We’re supporting people who haven’t assimilated—many not even citizens.”
David Gonzalez connected it to broader vulnerabilities. “With nearly 2 million gotaways at the border, we don’t know how many threats entered. 9/11 was 19 people. We’re incredibly vulnerable.”
Recent news of Trump pausing Somali aid programs after reports of destroyed U.S.-funded warehouses underscored the issue.
Sanctuary Cities and Preventable Risks
A caller, Lori Moore, raised a critical point: Good’s vehicle was positioned sideways, blocking agents. Her partner had initially driven, then switched seats to film the confrontation.
Gonzalez stressed prevention through cooperation. “In Maricopa County, the sheriff maintains an ICE office in the jail. Detainees are handed over safely upon release. Sanctuary policies force street confrontations that endanger everyone.”
Winn lamented local resistance. “Pima County Democrats, including former chair Adelita Grijalva, refused cooperation. It’s worse now with Chair Jen Allen.”
The 15th Anniversary of the Gabby Giffords Shooting
The broadcast coincided with the 15th anniversary of the Tucson shooting that killed six, including federal Judge John Roll, and gravely wounded then-Congresswoman Gabby Giffords.
David Gonzalez shared personal memories. “Judge Roll attended morning Mass, then stopped by the Safeway to thank Gabby for securing funding for marshals and courts. He was in line when the shooter opened fire. He lay in the parking lot for seven hours—inexplicable.”
Gonzalez also recalled Giffords’ character. “A month earlier, she personally wiped a speck from my nose in the Capitol cafeteria, saying, ‘I didn’t want anyone else to see it.’ She was pro-law enforcement, pro-Second Amendment, and worked across the aisle.”
All expressed sadness at her changed condition due to traumatic brain injury and the politicization of gun issues that followed.
Law Enforcement Standards and Appearance
The conversation shifted to modern policing standards. Dave Smith, a 49-year veteran, voiced frustration with relaxed grooming policies.
“I see beards, sleeves, man buns. It’s not about attracting youth—it’s about respect and officer safety. Ponytails and long hair are handles for attackers.”
Betsy Brantner-Smith agreed. “When officers look squared away, people are less likely to assault them.”
Gonzalez emphasized compliance. “99% of deadly encounters would end peacefully if people simply followed lawful orders.”
Political Frustration and the Path Forward
The panel closed with broader concerns about accountability, election integrity, and Republican activism.
Winn observed, “People are fed up seeing fraud exposed yet no arrests. From Russian collusion to COVID funds to election issues—nothing happens.”
Dave Smith warned, “Without cleaning voter rolls and securing elections, a republic that doubts its electoral process is in crisis.”
Gonzalez, from a Democratic family that shifted right, urged outreach. “Hispanics are naturally conservative—family-oriented, fiscally responsible, faith-driven. Republicans must do better reaching them.”
All expressed cautious optimism in Trump’s direct approach but acknowledged his style sometimes alienates. Yet they agreed: conventional politics would have lost the country.
Kathleen Winn wrapped with characteristic fire: “We need a Republican Party as activist for our liberties as Democrats are against them. The truth doesn’t win on its own—we have to fight for it every single day.”