Guests - Dan Grossenbach, Betsy Smith, Pastor Robert Furrow

Standing Up for Truth: The Legacy of Charlie Kirk and the Fight for Free Speech

In the wake of the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, the conversation about free speech, parental rights, and the impact of gender ideology in education has taken on new urgency. The recent events have highlighted the dangerous consequences of political division and the vital importance of respectful dialogue.

A Professor's Fight for Parental Rights

Daniel Grossenbach, a former ethics professor at the University of Arizona, shared his experience of being fired after speaking out at a school board meeting. As a parent advocating for parental rights in his children's school district, Grossenbach found himself targeted for his views.

"I was teaching the next generation of future government leaders, including school board members and university administrators, presumably a lot of pre-law students, a lot of future cops," Grossenbach explained. "And I'm fired for speaking out in accordance with those values in my personal time, off the clock, on matters of public concern at a school board meeting."

Grossenbach's message was straightforward: to protect children and ensure all kids have equal rights to loving parental involvement in their upbringing. His concerns stemmed from learning that the Catalina Foothills School District had distributed gender identity surveys to students and was maintaining lists of students who requested to be called by preferred names and pronouns—all without parental notification.

"When we're talking empathy, when we're talking about love, compassion, those things don't—we use the same words, but we're not meaning the same thing behind it," Grossenbach noted about the difficulty in communicating across ideological divides.

The professor's case has now become a lawsuit alleging violations of the First and 14th Amendments, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and Arizona public records law. He is seeking reinstatement, back pay, damages for harm to his reputation, and an injunction blocking enforcement of university policies that he argues restrict free speech.

Legal Implications of the Case

Daniel Schmidt of Liberty Council, who represents Grossenbach, explained the broader significance of the case: "The professor did not give up his First Amendment right to speak in front of a public government body on issues of public concern. The government employee doesn't surrender their First Amendment rights. That just doesn't happen when they enter public employment."

Schmidt connected the dots between suppression of speech and violence: "It starts with a termination, and then those see, 'Oh, this is okay for the government to do.' And what does it result in? A man is dead for this very particular ideology that says, if you have views we don't like, we get to silence you—however we want to, whether it be firing someone, whether it be shooting them."

The attorney emphasized that the First Amendment doesn't permit silencing individuals because others find their views offensive. "If we don't knock it off, the ramifications are going to continue with what we just saw last week," Schmidt warned.

The Unique Nature of Gender Ideology Conflicts

Grossenbach highlighted what he sees as the uniquely personal nature of gender ideology debates: "There is a perceived threat on that side... The messaging that I'm hearing is that we are trying to wipe away people from existence. Those are the words that were used in one of the anonymous complaints submitted to my department head—that I'm saying their child should not exist."

He continued, "If I really believed that somebody, putting my feet in their shoes for a second, if I thought somebody was trying to wipe out my child from existence, I don't know what I would do, but it wouldn't be good."

This perspective, Grossenbach suggested, creates a different level of conflict than other political disagreements: "This is not talking about affirmative action or tax policy or even immigration. This is something deeply personal, and it's aligned with Marxist ideology based on identity, whether it's your class or your gender or your race."

A Pastor's Reflection on Charlie Kirk's Legacy

Pastor Robert Furrow of Calvary Tucson Church shared his thoughts on Charlie Kirk's impact and the response to his assassination. Having hosted Kirk at his church for events, Furrow described him as a passionate yet respectful communicator.

"All you've got to do is go on YouTube, watch any of the Charlie Kirk videos. He'll be talking to them, he'll put down the mic, and then he'll let them talk and pick it back up. They'll interrupt him, he'll put back down the mic. He gives them as much time as they want to be able to go over it. And he is always respectful," Furrow said.

The pastor noted Kirk's priorities: "He would regularly say that it is my faith in God first, my family second, and politics third. He was definitely involved in politics, but he knew his place with God and his family was in front of that."

Furrow described how Kirk's assassination has already begun to spark spiritual revival: "Greg Laurie had a Harvest Crusade after Charlie's death, and so many people came forward that the fire marshals shut the field down where people were coming to give their lives to Christ. They couldn't get all the people on the field."

In his own church, Furrow witnessed an unusual number of people responding to altar calls after services following Kirk's death. "We had 15 people sitting together in our second service on the east side that all raised their hands. I was just amazed."

A Call for Pastoral Courage

Furrow challenged fellow pastors to show the same kind of courage Kirk demonstrated: "Pastors have become fearful that people will walk out. And I don't know what that fear is. People walk out of church services all the time when they don't like what you say. I heard someone say one time that if you don't got people walking out, you're not preaching enough."

He shared a story about another pastor who acknowledged biblical truth but refused to preach it for fear of losing congregants. Furrow connected this reluctance to historical failings of the church: "It happened in Nazi Germany. There were pastors who wouldn't speak up because it was dangerous for them. It happened in the South and even in the North in the United States during slavery."

"Charlie wanted to be known for his courage of faith," Furrow said. "And who else is in a better position to show courage of faith than pastors? Be bold, say the hard thing, say the thing that is the truth."

The Impact on Young Men

Both Grossenbach and Furrow noted Kirk's particular impact on young men. Furrow pointed out: "In this last election, Trump won the young men, which is the first time that that's happened in this century. Young men went 20 points for Hillary and then they went 13 points for Biden. To see this shift—and I can tell you, we're seeing young men come to our church at rates that we haven't seen in a long time."

Kirk regularly encouraged young men to "go out, find a wife, get married, give your life to God"—a message that Furrow described as "rarely being heard." He contrasted this with cultural messages about "toxic masculinity" that have made young men hesitant to pursue traditional roles.

The Response to Tragedy

The conversation highlighted the stark contrast in responses to Kirk's assassination. While some celebrated the tragedy, many more responded with an outpouring of support, prayer, and renewed commitment to the values Kirk championed.

Kathleen Winn, the host, shared: "I was on planes. I was in Seattle. My son-in-law, who's a preacher, turned 40. People were more polite. People were kinder. I didn't imagine it, and Seattle is not a bastion of conservative values."

She also mentioned that several hundred more people attended Furrow's church the Sunday after Kirk's assassination, suggesting a spiritual awakening in response to the tragedy.

Erica Kirk's Courage

Pastor Furrow expressed admiration for how Kirk's wife, Erica, has responded to her husband's murder: "I don't know what it's like to lose a spouse at 30 years of marriage. And they're newly married, and it's so brutal for her."

He compared her to Elizabeth Elliott, wife of missionary Jim Elliott who was killed by indigenous people he was trying to reach. Elizabeth later returned to the same village, winning to Christianity the very people who had killed her husband.

"I believe that the same thing is going to happen with Erica Kirk," Furrow predicted. "I believe that she will—she's bold, she knows how to speak well, and I believe that God's going to use her, that the courage of Charlie Kirk will come forth in her."

Moving Forward

As the community processes this tragedy, the conversation pointed to seeds of hope emerging from the darkness. Thousands of people have reportedly requested to open new Turning Point USA chapters on campuses across the country, while others have been inspired to take action in their local communities.

"What is not to love and respect? This kid planted 2,500 campuses of Turning Point teams, and over the weekend, thousands and thousands of people have come forward and said, 'I want one of those on my campus,'" Winn noted.

The consensus among the speakers was that Kirk's legacy would live on through those inspired by his example—people committed to respectful dialogue, faith-based values, and the courage to speak truth even when it's unpopular.

As Pastor Furrow concluded: "Charles Swindoll had said, 'Forget about your critics. It's God you want to please. You'll always have critics, but it's God you want to please.' So let the critics do what they're going to do, and we'll set our hearts on our Lord and Savior and do what we do for him, no matter the cost."